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LIC rental prices soften, luxury apartments down 7% on average for the quarter

Source: NYdesigns

Source: NYdesigns

Oct. 13, 2015 By Christian Murray

Long Island City rental prices tumbled in the third quarter, according to Modern Spaces’ 3Q15 report.

The report, released today, revealed that rental prices for luxury apartments were down 7.2 percent on average, to $3,979, compared to the second quarter.

The drop is largely the result of a number of new buildings hitting the market. Furthermore, many Long Island City residents left their existing apartments to move into the newly-opened Hunters Point South complex.

“A lot of people who won the lottery relocated there from other parts of Long Island City,” said Eric Benaim, chief executive of Modern Spaces.  “All of a sudden a lot of apartments became available.”

The decline was particularly significant when it came to rental prices for two and three bedroom apartments.

The price of a 2 bedroom luxury apartment dropped 9.2 percent—to $4,346—compared to the second quarter figure of $4,788, according to the report. Meanwhile, 3 bedroom units fell 10.1 percent, to $6,016.

Studios were down 1.5%, to $2,504, while one bedrooms fell 2.7%, to $3,049.

However, the rental figures were up across the board compared to a year ago. Studios were up 5.7 percent from 3Q14; one bedrooms were up 1.2 percent; two bedrooms 5.1 percent; and three bedrooms 5.9 percent.

Benaim said that the rental market is slowing down and noted that 20,000 new units are coming online over the next 3 years.

 

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John John

Angelo – It appears your issue is not with over paying for labor but the deliberate attempt to under pay for labor to a point skirting slavery. There is truth to the saying you get what you pay for. You like to throw around terms like “correlation” and “causality”. Poster Macs data analysis, which you still haven’t countered, makes a concise correlation between low wages crime, education and all other facets that make up a standard of quality of life in a society. You keep the blinders on to “correlation” and “causality” for that one. You act as if national borders coming down is an elemental phenomenon, when in reality they’re coming down by legislation benefiting a handful of people who have great wealth and power at great harm and expense to the majority of this nation. Your comparison of the the American labor force to the third world labor force is, to quote you, a “variable beyond the simplistic” . Yes compare my friends, neighbors and relatives to people who don’t have running water, open sewers and extreme poverty and disease is just insulting. Yes you could get these desperate people to work for pennies a day and bring our once proud great nation down to their level. Globalization in the last five years has gotten us tens of thousands of dead dogs and cats from tainted pet food made in China (yeah, Gun Kai! loser), tooth paste tainted with anti freeze from China and toys made with paint. These companies went overseas to circumvent regulations that have always made this nation safe.Yes, you understand the “Global Economy. You buddy are nothing but an “UnAmerican traitor” and should be charged with Economic Treason.

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Angelo

Blah blah blah. First, if you had actually been to China over the past few decades, you would know how ignorant it is to claim they don’t have running water, etc. If you, your family, or your friends were dropped into a real third world shithole, you would be squatting in a ditch just like everyone else. Actually, you probably just wouldn’t survive. You have no knowledge, but certainly consider yourself to be superior to the world’s poor (elitist?). What irony.

Second, the money that accounts for income inequality as lionized in the media didn’t go to rich Americans. It went to the Chinese peasants who are now the Chinese middle class. Isn’t this redistribution, or does that stop at our national border? Good enough for the goose and all.

Third, inferior products from China are indeed concerning, but this is the teething of a massive economic realignment that (a) is not going to stop and (b) will benefit more people globally even though it hurts some locally. We better figure out how to make it work, because stopping it would require Americans to accept increased prices for goods. I am not going to bet on that. While many regulations in place are good, there are many more that just constipate the economy and line pockets (see: union).

Finally, your mom and apple pie schtick at the end is comedic. An unamerican traitor guilty of economic treason? Good thing no one is coming to you for legal advice, because none of that drivel is legally cogent. It is a market economy out there, and you are responsible for you, full stop. Your nation-state patriotism, while quaint, is totally disconnected from the emerging concept of global citizen.

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Angelo

it is an accurate statement. Not inferior in the sense of cheaper, but inferior in the sense of unfit for use. I completely agree that these products should not have been distributed, but make the point that they are inevitable errors of the really going to a new globalized economic order.

Of course, I am also well aware that anyone who doesn’t bend over for some good old wealth transfer or hyperventilate that there isn’t enough regulation is considered a sociopath by the Left. Yawn.

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Saber

-Angelo Then why have you aligned yourself with that whiner Brooklynmc? My cousin the plumber makes more than me..the garbage man makes more than me..I didn’t win the building lottery..cheaters abound..its fixed…I have to live in the cheap building….tell brooklynmc to change his tag to the buck passing blamer…

brooklynmc

I did not know we are supposed to be “taking sides”. I thought this was just a bunch of people from the COMMUNITY having a DISCUSSION.

Saber

-brooklynmc You would be stupid enough to belittle the poisoning of children with lead paint. We all knew what John was referring to in his post. The others are right to mock you. You are child like and stupid would be an understatement. Go back and cry about your ferry ride.

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brooklynmc

I am not in some kind of little news site popularity contest. I look for news that interests me and sometimes I comment in hopes of having discussions. Unfortunately most comments sections are infested with trolls like you. Exactly why large news sites have stopped comments sections. I can only be insulted by people I respect so go ahead and fire away. Enjoy your soap box and status as troll. If you feel like talking, I will talk but I will no longer respond to your childish comments.

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hmmmmm

It is not possible that there are 20K units coming to market in the next 3 years.

Did they quote him directly, or is Benaim just spewing garbage.

The largest projects are just underway.

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Time's Up

“I graduated with a BFA in Advertising and have no pension and spend all my money on rent and food”

When I first read this I thought it was parody. You made the decision to invest years of your life (and presumably a considerable amount of money) pursuing a degree for which there is little demand in a field whose net effect on society is arguably negative. And then you have the audacity to complain about plumbers and Sanitation workers? And you think unions are the problem? Perhaps you should’ve taken more history and economics classes.

And people can’t have a “discussion” with someone as dense as you. Mac posted a lengthy retort to your nonsense and you completely ignored it.

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Queen of Angels 1978

-Time’s up People like Brooklynmc find it easier to attack and knock others than build themselves up to the level they seek. Brooklynmc will never admit they pursued a degree that has little demand. They do however jealously attack others who have accomplished something.

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Angelo

Actually, I think that Brooklynmc just calls out the bullshit rhetoric that the union saps like to spew here (fortunately, most of you will be priced out soon). While he/she/it may have chosen a questionable focus of study, the reality is that his/her/its job will still be here in 10 years while the union dipshits will have priced themselves into being replaced by the Chinese. Gun kai!

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Mac

@Angelo Go read Joe’s post listing the high level jobs sent abroad and skilled visa programs bringing cheap skilled labor into the country. It’s addressed to you. Are you embarrassed to be so uninformed and ignorant?

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Angelo

Go read my response to him. Are you embarrassed to be such an arrogant blowhard who bought into union racketeering hook, line, and sinker? You know, every time I recommend a client send some American union jobs overseas, people like you make me feel warm and fuzzy about it. Gun Kai! (Look it up and learn something about the larger world).

John John

Angelo From what Brooklynmc described in his post about his job; its either on its way to being abolished or just a crappy job that has no benefits and doesn’t even pay a living wage. The other people posting on this stream are way too kind to you when they call you gullible and uninformed. A person who cheers on the elimination of decent paying jobs and retention of a job the poster even states doesn’t provide enough for a person to live on is an imbecile. Do you really believe low wages are in the best interest of a country with a progressive tax system and a consumer driven economy? You are one of the biggest imbeciles i have ever seen posting on this stream. If people can get you to cheer on your own countries falling behind they can you do anything. You’re straight out of George Orwell’s 1984.. “Ignorance is bliss”. Have a good one and enjoy your low wage job sucker,you’re a complete imbecile.

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Angelo

John John – my issue is with overpaying for labor. Your problem, as with most here, is that your thinking is stuck in the 1970s. The reality is that the idea of an economy geared towards having a full time salaried position is not the future. Individual contract as-needed work is. Think Uber or freelance work. Perhaps Brooklynmc’s issue is that he is looking for a full time job vs freelance, which is how many Ad Agencies are sourcing their creative groups today. Why pay labor for downtime?

Furthermore, national borders are becoming less and less relevant for skilled labor and unskilled/low-skill labor that is not geographically tied, eg, manufacturing, although downward pressure on wages because of outsourcing should and will drive down the wage for geographically tied labor, eg, the garbage man. Skilled labor’s value, however, will go up because of scarcity and mobility. You are right that this will pose a challenge for current models of tax collection, but to try to prevent the future from happening through protectionist labor laws would be the modern equivalent of Smoot Hawley. American labor is simply overpaid by global standards, and wages will homogenize even more in the coming years. Be prepared to make do with less.

Given this inevitability, you and others are the ones with your heads in the sand. The globalized future is coming, whether you like it or not. Instead of looking for ways to innovate, you and your ilk are standing around like a bunch of dinosaurs wondering what the approaching asteroid is. We all know how that turned out, and recent years have suggested that history is about to repeat itself.

Angrlo

Seems to be an elitist with a distain for people who don’t have a higher education. He’s better than the rest of us in his mind. You’ll never get through to him.

Angelo

If thinking people should be paid according to their economic value as opposed to magical thinking about what they “should” get paid makes me an elitist, well, I guess I am. I have no disdain for people without a higher education – only whiny people, regardless of education, who feel entitled to overcharge for their labor and be thanked for it.

Look at it this way – would you pay a BMW price for a Honda? Both are good cars that get you from A to B, but one commands more value than the other. In the economic sphere, people are the same.

brooklynmc

Angelo, in response to your later post. I have been freelancing for many years. Around 15. I finally found the right group and company to take a full time gig. I did it because I now have two kids and a wife who wants security, vacation time and benefits. I took a pay cut, but the industry shift right now is toward no more freelancers. My company, a Publicis company, is trying to rely more on overworked staff that does not get overtime and less on expensive freelancers.

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brooklynmc

We live in one of those cheap luxury buildings. Many people we know have switched, as the article states, to the two new Hunter’s Point South complex with cheaper rents. These families who afforded the higher rents and have 2 incomes are now in moderately priced, rent stabilized apartments. Something is very fishy with who is being accepted over there. I think they need to dig deeper in the application process. Cheaters abound.

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brooklynmc

What a typical pack of trolls. No discussion, just insults and childish remarks. Does it make you feel like you belong somewhere? Kind of like Cheers.

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Angelo

There was s a reason they had to join a racket like a union to survive…not much to offer except attitude.

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Bitter much

Brooklyn posted that half his family are plumbers. Half Union. So half his family have nothing to offer but attitude? Unions do have a purpose in the workforce. Do Unions breed some lazy workers who take advantage because jobs are protected, sure. Are they perfect, no. They do however serve a purpose.

Angelo

While I stand by my original statement, I will acknowledge that private sector union workers tend to be better than public sector union members…occasionally a motivated, customer service-oriented private sector union member pops up. Rare, but it does happen.

brooklynmc

I can hear your low class Brooklyn accent from here. Union guy named Mac. Don’t you have a date with a blow up rat and a whistle somewhere?

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Do you

Talk that tough to your Union plumber family? Next time you walk by a sanitation worker or any other public service employee, I hope you and angelo spit on them for good measure. This way they will know what bottom feeding, knuckle dragging Neanderthals you believe them to be.

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Angelo

They are not knuckle dragging Neanderthals; they are only demanding more money that their labor is worth. There is a difference, or do you feel that any price for anything is OK?

Saber

-brooklynmc…. “Times up” and “Mac” are totally correct what they posted about you. You refuse to refute any of the facts made by Mac and you do nothing but whine how everybody else like your plumber cousin to the garbageman are keeping you down. hahaha You sure are hilarious. You’re such a buck passing blamer. Hahaha Psychologist say most people who behave like you are spoiled and child like and usually in the week position and he tries to gain some power over the situation by blaming other people. If you want to stop blaming others then you should learn how to become in control of your life, how to be stronger and how to face different life problems…

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Angelo

Again, I question the conclusions drawn from the facts – totally different from questioning the facts. Also, I am not blaming anyone for anything, just making the value point that unskilled labor is overpaid. There is no blame in that statement. Reading comprehension is obviously not your strong suit.

Saber

-brooklynmc I went back and reviewed every post by Mac and don’t find anything “union guy” about them they just use fact to refute your baseless claims about what sanitation men earn, unions and their impact on economies listing the most unionized nations in the world. Siting reputable sources in his analysis..I think you’re angry because he called you a whiner and told you, you couldn’t hack it…from the looks of your crybaby posts he is absolutely correct. I am so sorry I got into this discussion after it settled down.

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mcolan

Sorry, I don’t live on comments boards. I do always try to reply to serious, non-insulting posts though so I just went through some older posts. The problem is, some of you guys are just on immature auto-pilot so I am not sure why I waste my time.

glad to see

I think Elmhurst, Jackson Heights, rego park, middle village, ridge wood and many other place in Queens are still nice with affordable rents. LIC is the closest to the city and now the most desirable real estate in Queens

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Angelo

The price reflects supply and demand. Supply went up, therefore price went down. Or do you propose price controls a la USSR? Rent stabilization laws already distort the rental market enough…no thanks. Who says Hunters Point must be a middle class neighborhood anyway?

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Anonymous visitor

There is no such thing as a pure market-driven economy anymore. The real estate market in particular is rigged through incentives, tax abatements and endless other gimmicks available to those with enough money and influence to buy what they want. I’m all in favor of leveling the playing field. Let’s start from scratch and put NYC real estate to the test. I’d be surprised if apartments in places like LIC go for even half of what landlords are getting now.

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Huh?

@Queen of Angels – Angelo is probably just out of school with no real life experience to draw upon. No need to argue with him. Hopefully, once he acquires a few more notches in his belt, he will come to realize that life is a tad bit more complicated than how he sees things. My only fear is that Angelo is actually “middle aged.” Then we are in trouble.

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Angelo

Nope. I am middle aged and have 20 years experience working with companies to help them restructure to face a more globalized economy. I think I have a fairly good feel for the globalized labor market and how our financial system works, you know, from actually working in it vs living in a union bubble.

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Cecy

Even when the rental price goes down the price still wayyy too high not even a middle class family of an 150K can afford these prices

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Peter

The middle class was squeezed out of the city quite a long time ago and now it seems that the outer boroughs are following suit. My parents couldn’t afford to live where they grew up and I couldn’t afford to buy in the area I grew up, just the way it goes. The city seems to cater to two groups, rich and poor, if you have money there are plenty of ‘luxury’ buildings and if your poor it’s NYCHA or one of the many rougher high crime neighborhoods. If your a middle class family your options in the city are very limited which is why most opt for the island and commuting on the train (LIRR).

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brooklynmc

That is not a middle class salary for NYC. Garbage men can make $150,000.00 a year which means that I make less than a garbage man. This is how upside down the economy is in the US and unions are one of the biggest problems. My cousin is a plumber and lives in a mansion in Ct. and drives a BMW. I graduated with a BFA in Advertising and have no pension and spend all my money on rent and food. We are screwed. The country is screwed. Just enjoy today because tomorrow will be worse.

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anon

You should have learned a more in demand skill. I have more use for a skilled plumber than an ad hack. You should make less that a garbage man.

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Just a visitor

Your cousin learned a trade. You went academic. Don’t put down blue collar work from your white collar office. Fewer and fewer people go into the trades. What if no one wanted to be a plumber or a sanitation worker?

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brooklynmc

Half my family are plumbers. I am not dissing trades and I am not bitter. College can cost $200,000.00. All I am saying is that this is not sustainable. Who will go to college? A nation where few graduate from college will be an uneducated nation.

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Bitter much

Your right. If people don’t go to college we wouldn’t be an educated nation. Most people go to college to gain opportunity in their given field. Equal opportunity does not garuntee equal out come. The world needs plumbers and sanitation workers just like we need doctors and teachers.

Bitter much?

So go be a plumber. Though from the way you write it seems you feel that work is beneath you. You blame unions but appear bitter that you don’t get a pension. people who work in the trades get their back into their living an deserve a good salary. Ask a sanitation worker how much he had to work to earn 150k. They start at less than 40k.

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Angelo

Come off it. Public sector unions are screwing the tax payers by exchanging votes for money with politicians like Comrade Mayor. They are corrupt to the point where I would like to see Walker become Secretary of Labor and do what he did in Wisconsin to the whole country. Sorry if you don’t like it, but the tax payers are the bosses of public workers, and we are not getting value for money.

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Bitter much?

Public workers don’t pay taxes? I was simply acknowledging the hard work of the individual plumber and sanitation worker that was being looked over. How much should they get paid in order for you to see value in the money, boss?

Angelo

Obviously public sector workers pay taxes…I am not sure where you got that one from. My point is that taxpayers pay their salaries, and we aren’t getting good value for money. Reading comprehension fail.

I cannot judge the value of a plumber, but it is fairly skilled work that commands a premium. It is also an irrelevant comparisons, since most plumbers are private sector.

I would consider a garbage collector, however, fairly unskilled labor. How about 1.5 times minimum wage with no benefits? The idea that a sanitation worker’s salary should go up more than inflation each year is nuts. How is a 5 year veteran of trash tossing any better that a 5 month veteran? I would say the opposite once they hit 35 years old…wear and tear and all.

I could care less if the work is easy or hard – if your replacement can be trained in a few days, you are not going to commend a huge paycheck.

Mac

@Angelo The 25 states which have passed Right to Work laws are: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Kansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas,Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. The worst crime in the nation according to FBI statistics are all”red” states of Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas and South Carolina. A policy of low wages in a country with a consumer driven economy s a recipe for disaster. You will notice the same lpow wage “right to work for less ” have the worst health, lowest wages, worst in education according to Craines, WSJ, Forbes Magazine and the US Census. “Right to work” policies only serve to keep people poor The Pew Economic Mobility Project, a non-profit, non-partisan research organization, released a report on May 5,2013, on upward mobility. The 9 Worst States:Alabama, Florida, Kentucky,Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina,Oklahoma,South Carolina,Texas. US census data reveals the 10 poorest states : Mississippi, Arkansas, West Virginia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Montana, Kentucky, Alabama, North Carolina and Louisiana. They all have common denominators the overwhelming majority are “right to work” states. Also According to Forbes Magazine a Republican Contributor Maryland , Connecticut, New Jersey. New Hampshire, Alaska, Massachusetts, Virginia ,Hawaii, Delaware and California 10 Richest states by Median Household Income. Do you see any “right to work states” in the list? Angelo let us guess truth, facts and history don’t matter to you. You’re a Fox watching Republican who rallies behind doctored videos.

A

So, Mac, these states are all the exact same except for right to work laws? Coincidence, correlation, and causality are all very different things, something you should have learned in high school. Similarly, common denominators and overall majority are logically incompatible.

In any case, the fact that people who are unable to generate value suffer in an economy seems like a reasonable outcome…why should the successful subsidize the failures beyond the base necessities? Would you pay more at a restaurant because the owner is an incompetent businessman? Would you pay haute cuisine prices for a burger? People have value just like socks, cars, and food. To deny this reality in economics makes you a bleeding heart collectivist.

Joe at the Berkley

@A What’s the A for? A… Hole? “Coincidence, correlation, and causality are all very different things, something you should have learned in high school. Similarly, common denominators and overall majority are logically incompatible.” That is the most ridiculous statement yet…. We use statistical data to compare all type of states..East Coast. West Coast, demographically and or economically contrasting etc… Obviously Macs post told you something you didn’t want to hear. Macs post sites multiple and unrelated sources supporting the point “right to work legislation” is a common denominator in this equation but a well analyzed and concise post not a blind unsupported statement like yours. Just because the result of analysis is not what you want to hear doesn’t mean you should resort to smear and insults to try and discredit the analysis. You’re suppose to come back to the analysis and facts of your own. Your post is a waste of time and without any facts whatsoever. Mac is right about facts, truth and history not mattering to some and you’re one of them.

Angelo

Joe, Mac is done something called cherry picking. I spend a fair amount of my professional life in the realm of statistics, and his argument lacks the rigor required for it to be respected. Pull a multivariate analysis out that accounts for variables beyond the simplistic “they all have right to work laws” and maybe it holds water. Until then, it is Leftist BS designed to inflate the salaries of people whose labor should be replaced by the Chinese.

Joe at the Berkley

@Angelo Your definition of “Cherry Picking” is off. It would be “Cherry Picking” if Mac took selective elements of a subset to make his point. The use of the top and bottom performers of an analysis or survey is an accepted form of data analysis. We use the very same method in Mutual Fund analysis, Stock analysis , University comparison, auto performance and sports just to name a few. How about refuting Mac with a fact or two instead of this silly little dance of yours evading the debate. Stop wasting everyone’s time.

Angelo

Joe, if you cannot understand the difference between correlation and causality, there is no point in trying to get you to understand that many more factors drive economic performance than right to work laws.

Joe at the Berkley

@Angelo You’ve done every song and dance around Mac’s post except the one that actually refutes or addresses any of the facts within the post or topic at hand. So quit wasting peoples time and go back to watching Fox News. You’re making a complete moron of yourself.

Angelo

Joe – the argument Mac makes is based on weak data. I could just as easily pull college gattendance and find a similar correlation. I fail to see the point of arguing something that really has no foundation in clean data. But, that is the union way…burn time circle jerking to ring up the dollars.

Mac

@Angelo Yes weak data provided by the Wall Street Journal, Crain’s, The Pew Research Center, FBI and the US Census….Weak data…You’re ridiculous. Please just refute the data or move on nit wit… The data still isn’t as weak as your debating skills and issue dodging dances..

Angelo

Mac, the data are the data. Your conclusions are conjecture from the data – hypothesis generating at best. I do not see the data you present as being adequate to support your conclusion, especially given the number of other possibilities. I will grant you that I should have said weak analysis, not weak data. I will not, however, insert the obligatory insult that you and your supporters feel the need to inject with each post, as I would prefer to keep things classy.

David

I’m not really pro union. I’ve read in the Richmond Times Dispatch (my former local paper) that Right to work legislation reduces revenue to unions by 15% where ever it has been passed that is why Republicans are so quick to pass it when they gain state houses and governors offices. It weakens their opponents which strengthens their backers. Less money less power this is America. It’s no surprise so called right to work states would occupy the cellar of all these surveys and studies. What I found interesting is of the the ten wealthiest states in the US only my former home of Virginia made the list and that is almost because of the DC area suburbs. One in ten is pretty bad for any survey. I went on to the US Census site and looked up the top half of half of the wealthiest states by per capita income. 25 states in the collation. Right to work states added 6 more states, Wyoming, North Dakota, Wisconsin(newly added to the ranks of right to work), Nebraska, Iowa, and Kansas. Average per capita income for all 50 US states is $28,155.00 and Median household Income is $53,046.00. of the Right to work states only North Dakota and Wyoming (two energy states) fall above the national averages in per capita income and MHHI. In the past 2 years those two have dropped significantly due to the drop in energy prices. According to my review Mac is absolutely correct that Right to work is a common factor in states performing below the average in per capita and household income (almost all 25 states Right to work states occupy the 25 bottom slots) and states without right to work laws and restrictions is a factor in the overwhelming majority who perform above average in per capita and household income. Less money less power this is America. Right to work legislation obviously does work and work well.

Joe at the Berkley

@brooklynmc That’s just another part of your problem and where you show, you “have it wrong” again..It’s not all about the starting salary or even the salary itself in general. It’s called a salary package for a reason. Your “career” is a long term investment not something that should be viewed as a tool for “instant” or short term gratification. Your view of is shrouded in sophomoric simplicity.

I think

Angelo- you referred to union workers as ” dipshits” in a previous post. Now you pretend to be above hurling insults?

Angelo

I think – I was only making an accurate statement about the ineffectual and contemptible nature of union “workers”.

hmmmmm

suddenly throwing trash into a truck is a trade?

yeah, maybe monotonous and tedious at most, but definitely not a trade.

no one over 30 should be throwing trash into a truck. same as hiring grown adults for positions in the fast food sector.

just a personal opinion.

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Queen of Angels 1978

-hmmm My neighbor went on the Department of sanitation in the 70’s and started out as a trash collector retired a superintendent.

The New York City Department of Sanitation has its own police force, which is composed of four specialized units:

The Uniformed Sanitation Police Force
The illegal dumping task force
The Permit and Inspection Unit
The Environmental Police Unit
They are composed of uniformed and undercover officers who handle sanitation related emergency calls, and enforce sanitation related laws in addition to state and city traffic and criminal laws. DSNY police officers are NYS peace officer certified by the NYS Municipal Training Council. Officers may carry a firearm , carry and use handcuffs, make warrant-less arrests, issue summonses, and use physical and deadly force. The police force uses marked and unmarked police cars. There are heavy machine operators, wayne broom operators, mechanics etc… Garbage collection is usually just a starting point for most and a great way to stay in shape. Next time do a little simple research into a topic before shooting your uninformed mouth off it makes you look like an uninformed Fox watching blowhard.

Bitter much

My pencils have erasers because I make mistakes. You are correct it is not a trade. I was lumping them in because they are Union. My mistake.

Angelo

Queen, sounds like NYDS has a lot of redundancy that could be trimmed or outsourced. Almost a poster child for breaking all public sector unions. Where is Scott Walker when you need him?

John John

Angelo Scott Walker is back in Wisconsin trying to turn it into low wage third world state. You obviously don’t travel much and don’t know what a low wage society looks like or you wouldn’t be shooting your ignorant mouth off. As I said in an earlier post, you’re an imbecile.

Queen of Angels 1978

-Angelo Yes yours is the only job worth anything. Add self righteous to the long list of names the people on this stream are branding you.

Angelo

John John, I have traveled quite a bit outside the US, including through rock bottom third world countries, both luxuriously and via backpack. Your argument is that everyone should basically pool their money – unapologetic redistributionism. Mine is that people need to make it on their own, and the losers get the meat grinder.

All I see here is a bunch of entitled union slobs who are getting their panties in a bunch when a mirror is held up to them. The future is pretty bleak if that is you expectation of a salary package. Oh well, go ahead and spew insults like a teenage internet troll in his mom’s basement.

John John

Angelo -Your quote “Your argument is that everyone should basically pool their money – unapologetic redistributionism. Mine is that people need to make it on their own, and the losers get the meat grinder.” Is your most delusional post yet. No statement like that or remotely close to it was made by anyone posting on this stream. There aren’t many entries go back and review them imbecile. The only pooling of money is by con artists like you who pool your money to buy lobbyist to do your bidding and buy our government officials to change the laws to rig the game for you. God forbid you earned your money fairly and with a degree of integrity. This is the truth about wealth and re-distribution and an indisputable fact. You and losers like you pass laws like right to work legislation to rig the game even more in your favor statistics and politicians confirm this. People like you start to say things like “people need to make it on their own, and the losers get the meat grinder”, believing your own con. Just from the sound of your post you’re not good enough to put anyone through a meat grinder. You’re the very definition a hateful entitled elitist loser. You’re not fooling anybody, you’re just not good enough to fool somebody.

Angelo

Of course, John John. Sweetie, please disregard the vast conspiracy that is really to blame for an hour of your labor being worth less than it used to be. Of course it has nothing to do with, well, an hour of your labor actually being worth less than it used to be. Face it – hour for hour the value of American labor is simply worth less money than it was a generation ago. Instead of inflating rubber rats, as Brooklynmc so very eloquently put it, maybe you should put some energy into adapting to a new reality. Oh…wait…that’s not the union way. Enjoy your economic putrescence. It couldn’t happen to a nicer bloke.

John John

Angelo Macs analysis is a great example of mutual relational – correlation. He said RTW legislation was a common denominator in every state on those surveys except one Montana. I went out and checked and he is absolutely correct. Queen was dead on his or her aristocratic assessment of you. You obviously have a deep contempt of people you deem beneath you. Oh, why did you say the word is misspelled in your post? I went out to the dictionary and dictionary said its correctly spelled. Just another example of lazy shoddy habits of an imbecile.

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You

Angelo- you keep using the word “entitled” when describing Union employees. What do you think they think they are entitled to?

Angelo

Aristocratical was correctly spelled, but atypically used. Aristocratical is typically used when making comparisons (more aristocratical) or describing institutions/entities. When describing people, aristocratic is preferred.

Mac

@brooklynmc The starting salary of a NYC sanitation worker is low, $33,746, but when you factor in overtime, it averages $47,371 in the first year. And after 5½ years, the salary jumps to an average of $88,616 dollars not $150K. List of most unionized countries in the world and percentage of citizens in unions. Austria 95%, Finland 91%,Denmark 80%,Sweden 88%,Iceland 88%,Netherlands 81%,Norway 70%,Switzerland 51%,Australia 43%,Canada 33%.These are the most sound economies in the world. to quite your post “have no pension and spend all my money on rent and food. We are screwed” Your research skills are horrible. Which on line school did you get your useless degree from? It doesn’t sound like we’re screwed but you on the other hand are a totally different story.

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Bitter much

@angelo- when you say things like “tax payers pay their salary so th are their boss”, you lack the acknowledgment that these workers also pay taxes so they contribute to their own salaries. They also contribute to their benefits and healthcare which you state they don’t deserve. I view it as tax payers pay the salary because it’s a service that benefits you. It maybe unskilled labor to you but it is a job that is crucial. Also, advertising sales can net millions of dollars in salaries to those who excel. blue collar workers are the salt of the earth and deserve some credit.

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Angelo

Unskilled labor is eminently replaceable. The tasks completed are vital, but the individual doing the labor is one step from being replaced by a robot. Salt of the Earth may be a nice idea, but I wouldn’t pay a dime extra for such romanticism.

Joe at the Berkley

@Angelo Your lack of information is alarming. “Unskilled labor is eminently replaceable.” All labor is eminently replaceable. Goldman Sacs has moved Investment Bankers to Mubai, India, AIG has moved actuary and GAP and FASB Accounting positions to India, JP Morgan Chase has moved Broker and Money Manager positions to London. Hospitals are bringing in nurses and technicians from the Philippines. And lets not forget the huge Visa programs (B1,H1B,L1A,L1B,E1, E2… to name a few) which has brought hundreds of thousands “skilled” employees to our country on the cheap. All labor is “eminently replaceable.” Queen Of Angels is absolutely correct in the post calling you gullible. You honestly believe you’ll be “eaten by the alligator last.” Keep drinking the Kool Aide.

Angelo

Joe, all labor is obviously replaceable. The pain in replacing skilled vs unskilled labor is not the same. I manage a group of professionals, all of whom have postgraduate degrees. I can tell you, replacing be one of them is a lot harder than replacing the janitor. In fact, I could replace the janitor in a couple of hours. Not so much for a highly skilled knowledge worker. That is why it is safe to say that unskilled labor is eminently replaceable. It is called nuance. Look it up and learn something.

brooklynmc

Now I know who spends so much time acting like babies posting on comments boards. Union members. Makes complete sense.

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Angelo

I am not sure that babies have quite the overdeveloped sense of entitlement that union members have…you may be being too kind.

You

Are the one throwing sand in the sand box cause your cousin plays with a BMW and your pushing a pinto.

Queen of Angels 1978

@Angelo You’re the one who appears to have ‘the overdeveloped sense of entitlement.” So, people who lack the skills or even the capacity to ascertain such “skills” should be relegated to low wage stations in the economic and social realms. While those with the means and good fortune to obtain the skills to advance should be the only ones to move up the social and economic ladder. Your view is pretty “Aristocratical”. “You got yours” and you’re entitled to the benefits someone with money in a market economy deserves, “entitled to.” You appear to have been absent the day they taught the fundamentals of a market economy. In a market economy, the market is where we go to get things done. In order to obtain goods and services (education being a service and books being an example of goods) you need to access the market. Without money you are unable to access the market therefore trapped at a low station. That is certainly not what America or a market economy are about. Let me guess you’re a Republican. The party of stupid as quoted by a Republican.

Angelo

Queen of Angels, please get over the fact that the world is not a fair place. Some are born lucky, some are born screwed. You clearly missed the day they taught evolution. Call it aristocratical (sic) or whatever you want. I certainly do not want to be obligated to fund the continued failure of someone ill suited to survive. If minimum wage is all you can muster, stop feeling sorry for yourself, please don’t breed, and get back to work.

Queen of Angels 1978

-Angelo Speculation is not fact you idiot. Sounds like the one who was born “screwed” was you. Next time post a fact or two you low performing low wage, low IQ blowhard. You find it easier to cry about what someone else is making instead of getting out there and earning a decent living yourself. You’re a classic cry baby with a huge sense of entitlement but can’t seem to get what you feel you’re entitled to because of your short comings. You sound like a complete failure. Some may say loser.

Angelo

Queen, you are the one speculating. I am neither low performing, low wage, nor low IQ. Rather, I make a 1% salary and was in the top 1% of IQ when last tested. You seem a bit sensitive…did you think the pejorative “you” in my last post was about you? That was not my intention. Funny that it touched a nerve, though.

Joe at the Berkley

@angelo Top 1% IQ is definitely not reflected in your baseless and fact free rants.

brooklynmc

America is a country of innovators. Innovators need advertising. I enjoy my profession and don’t think it is negative. I make a good living and have been adding to my IRA and 401K so don’t feel bad for me. As for sanitation workers. They do earn over $100,000. Many are compensated up to and over $150,000. Much of that is due to overtime costs and plowing snow in the winter. Not to mention crazy good benefits. Just google “NYC sanitation $150,000”. Most of the stories explain how unions are beginning to hurt America. Yes, I believe unions can be good and were good for America, but today they have become selfish and greedy and dangerous. The countries you listed are all smaller than Texas. I don’t think unions should go away, they just need to start working for the country again and not just for their own groups.

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Mel

Sanitation workers DO NOT MAKE 150,000 a year! My Brother is a retired sanitation worker and they don’t ever make that much! Check the facts Brooklynmc!

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Um

I too work in advertising and could go head to head w a garbage man – maybe you have expectations that are too high for your stage in your career (you didn’t say how long you had been at it), or perhaps you need to find a better shop – I have a BS in advertising, and while I can complain about a lot of things, salary isn’t one of them. Different jobs serve different functions. A person willing to smell and deal with trash should be compensated as such, but comparing a desk job to manual labor will never be apples to apples. If you want to make comparisons that are remotely apples to apples, join the Gawker union and then see how your salary stacks up.

@anon – you should not judge the things of which you clearly have no understanding. I will not attempt to assume what career you are in, but I hope for your sake it doesn’t require compassion and/or sound judgement.

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Peter

These prices are ridiculous, are there that many people that make that much money? A one bedroom apartment for 3K, in Queens, wow. I get that LIC has become a high end neighborhood with high desirability but even Astoria’s prices are out of control.

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Celeste

The city can afford to house homeless people for that amount of money. That is how much they pay hotels.

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